- Brothers Grimm
- German translation of gerund phrases?
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Moderator note: Split from here. I was told to reword a sentence such as "I don't like him ordering me around. But doesn't German have a present participle and gerund? Or has it disappeared in colloquial language? Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, Schimmelreiter Senior Member Deutsch. Johnnyjohn said:. Last edited: Dec 9, Hutschi Senior Member Dresden, Universum, born We can say "das Kind ist singend umhergesprungen. How is this in English? Is it a gerund construction? The construction is not general. Hutschi said:. It is the verb; er kam vs. In my feeling the construction with verbs of movement is much more common.
But there is a contrary example: Er schlief schnarchend.
I do not know exactly what is wrong with "er kochte naschend" - may be "kochen" is a general verb and "naschen" a special verb. I would say "Er naschte beim Kochen. Would you say "Er kochte naschend. I do not see a problem with "Suppe naschend kochte er. Last edited: Dec 10, A gerund is a verbal noun different from the infinitive. German does not have that, at least not a grammaticalized one.
There is an etymological equivalent, the -ung suffix but that is not grammaticalized in German words with this suffix are lexicalized. It means roughly the same as the suffix -tion. In my opinion, all these examples belong to the category of present participle constructs rather than gerunds. Edit: "Verbalsubstantiv" is actually a wrong expression in this context. See "das missbrauchte Verbalsubstantiv". Schimmelreiter said:. Die Struktur ist interessant. Is English Gerund really only a noun? This blocks the other meaning, if there is no context.
Craig Rice. In modern English, however, the gerund can also take objects: I like playing tennis. Sorry, I am new to linguistics and I have a hard time wondering why those example sentences had to be retranslated.source site
The gerund phrase playing tennis still is a noun, or noun phrase, to be precise. So why can't I say them as: Das Kommen hier war gut. Ich bin stolz insert correct preposition das gewinnen. Ich mag sein herumkommandierten mich nicht. I am sorry for asking so much but I just want to gain a better understanding of definitions in linguistics.
The last one is ambiguous in English though, it could either be a participle or gerund. The "Ordering me around" can be an adjective of sorts describing the "him" or it can be a verbal noun. I use the verbal noun though with a possessive to avoid ambiguity. I used to think of gerunds as being similar to photones, which possess properties of waves and particles, i. I thought gerunds had properties of nouns and verbs.
German translation of gerund phrases?
My question is is what is so different between German and English herein and why German can't use gerunds the same way as in English. Da stehe ich ein wenig auf dem Schlauch. Absolut ist eine semantische und adverbial eine syntaktische Kategorie. Ich verstehe nicht, warum die Frage, ob walking through the snow absolut ist oder nicht einen Einfluss auf hat, ob die Gruppe adverbial ist? If you use this thread to debate instead of helping me out, then I will be quite cross.
Fine lemme throw something in.
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Is the use of a gerund in some situations an absence or dropping of a verb? Ex: I find running to be good. As for German you have the sentence: Es ist leicht zu tun. This may look like subject raising but I consider the infinitive a gerundive and not a shifting. And the amount of verbs can be counted with one hand that do this. So combining the gerund is an abbreviation or a different technique, is it or isn't it? To add: This may show English syntax is regaining some complexity again after it lost so much once; adverbs of frequency also have a rule where they must come before the main verb too, so some stuff is coming back.
We simply don't. Gernot Back said:. What should be wrong with it? Als was sollte man es denn sonst ansehen, wenn nicht als Adverbiale? I see thanks, one more thing. What say you of the possibilities to raise subject, objects, s-s in German?
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Am I correct in that they are more limited or even nonexistent as I hypothesized? Excellent, German now has something English has, they got a pseudo-progressive and now this.. Ich mag sein Michherumkommandieren nicht. Gernot Back All you are saying is of course correct no progressive. What I'm now going to say is not related to progressive, which simply doesn't exist as an independent form in German, but please permit me to point out that you changed the TO's I don't like him ordering me around. Do you also say this of the participle group ordering me around in I don't like him ordering me around?
Is this participle group also adverbial? In my mind it's clearly attributive, qualifying him. Last edited: Dec 11, I put my details into the text. In addition to collecting and analyzing texts and folklore, the Grimms wrote books on the German language, literature , mythology, and law. They were the oldest of six children. The brothers spent a happy and comfortable early childhood in Hanau then in Steinau after their father became the district magistrate there in In , Philipp died suddenly of pneumonia at the age of After his death, the family was required to move out of their residence which was part of the large government-owned courthouse building.
With no pension or income of her own, Dorothea was forced to find modest accommodations for the family. Jacob and Wilhelm were sent, with financial assistance from Dorothea's sister Henriette Zimmer, to Kassel to attend the Lyceum Fridericianum high school. The brothers graduated at the head of their classes and were both given special dispensation to study law at the University of Marburg.
Isolated from other students by their hardship and low social status, Jacob and Wilhelm dedicated themselves to their studies. Professor Friedrich Carl von Savigny , cofounder of the historical school of law, took notice and invited Jacob to peruse his extensive private library. Savigny taught the brothers the principles of scientific historical research and greatly influenced their scholastic development.
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In , Jacob went to Paris as a research assistant to Savigny. The following year, his fluency in French earned Jacob an employment offer from the Hessian War Ministry. Although he accepted the position to support his family, he found himself unfulfilled working in the legal field. His interest in literature grew in the mean time, and he decided to apply for a position in the public library in Kassel.
Wilhelm, who was of fragile health, was too ill to work at the time. He was sent to a clinic in Halle for an expensive treatment. After six months, he returned to Kassel and joined Jacob at the library. Their positions at the library gave Jacob and Wilhelm the resources and time needed to pursue their interests. They first began collecting folk tales in for their friend Clemens Brentano.
When Brentano did not make use of the tales, Jacob and Wilhelm decided to publish the collection themselves. To the brothers, collecting folklore was more than just a scholarly endeavor. With Germany under Napoleonic French occupation, they worked with a sense of nationalism, driven by the desire to preserve the German cultural heritage.
At the same time, the brothers also recognized the decline of the oral storytelling tradition and wanted to preserve the tales with accuracy. The first edition of Children's and Household Tales was published in , and a second volume was added in Wilhelm continued to revise the tales, and six more editions were published between and After the liberation of Germany in , Jacob spent time in Paris and Vienna in diplomatic services.
He then rejoined Wilhelm at the Royal Library. They published volumes on German legends, grammar, and law. Wilhelm married Dortchen Wild in , but the brothers continued to live in the same household and work closely together. In , Jacob and Wilhelm were both passed over for promotion when the head librarian died. In, when the new king of Hanover dissolved the parliament and repealed the constitution, seven professors including Jacob and Wilhelm wrote a letter of protest. Jacob went to Kassel where he was later joined by Wilhelm and his family.
Despite financial difficulties, Jacob and Wilhelm continued to pursue their scholarly interests. In , they began work on an ambitious and massive project to compile a German dictionary.